Essay: Recently discovered Sonja Skatstedt Interview notes, on knowing Louis Dudek

The following essay, Sonja Skarstedt's notes for an interview on CBC radio, was published on 02 October 2026 at periodicities : a journal of poetry and poetics.

Robert Creeley, Michael Andre, and Sonja Skarstedt, c. 1993, New York City

Sonja Skarstedt on Louis Dudek

 

by Stephen Morrissey

I first met Sonja Skarstedt and her husband Geof Isherwood around 1990 when they visited my home near Huntingdon, Quebec; a few years later Sonja began Empyreal Press, she had been a student of Louis Dudek at McGill University in the early 1980s and later she became a friend and then a supporter and publisher of Louis' last books.

Louis was a great supporter of Sonja's poetry. Louis often wrote personal inscriptions in his books: in Atlantis, he wrote "For Sonja Skarstedt, with admiration for your fine talent"; in The First Person in Literature he wrote, "For Sonja Skarstedt, Excellent poet!"; in 1982, in Continuation 1, he wrote, "For Sonja, great expectations for your own work!"; he could see that she was a genuine poet and someone worth encouraging. She was a poet, a playwright, a publisher, and a visual artist. Her passing, in 2009, was a great loss for Montreal poetry and a personal loss for many of us.

A few weeks ago I was writing an essay in which I referred to the Louis Dudek issue of Open Letter (spring and summer 1981); my second copy of this had belonged to Sonja and I found two sheets of paper, written in Sonja's handwriting in March 1991, in the pages of this issue. They were her preparatory notes for Dave Bronstetter's afternoon home run programme broadcast daily on CBC radio, in which Sonja was interviewed with Louis, explaining his influence on younger poets and her memories of being one of his students.

Below, I have transcribed Sonja's notes for this interview so that they will be easier to read; this is Sonja's text, her hand lettering, including spelling noting strikethroughs; I wanted the transcription to be accurate to Sonja's original text. Louis had a profound influence on his students; many of us who were in Louis' classes went on to literary or teaching careers, or we were influenced in other life choices. Susan Stromberg-Stein, who was in Louis' graduate seminar with me in 1974-1975, wrote for her MA thesis Louis Dudek, A biographical Introduction to his Poetry (published by Golden Dog Press in 1983); Susan is a prominent sculptor whose work is widely exhibited. One day in 1975, I visited the English Department staff lounge at McGill and I remember seeing Louis and Laurence Hutchman sitting together editing and discussing Laurence's first book of poetry, Explorations (1975), published by Louis' DC Editions; Laurence's Swimming Toward the Sun: Collected Poems 1968-2018 was published in 2020. Louis Dudek supervised Ken Norris's PhD dissertation on the development of modernism in little magazines in Canada; Ken's place in Canadian poetry is secure considering his large body of work. Louis published first books of poetry for Leonard Cohen and Daryl Hine, both had been his students at McGill; Cohen's Let Us Compare Mythologies (1956) was highly acclaimed while Hine became editor of the prestigious Poetry (Chicago) from 1968-1978. Dudek's influence is extensive; I suggest reading Louis Dudek, Essays on his Works, edited by George Hildebrand (Guernica, 2001) and Robin Blaser's introduction to Infinite Worlds, the poetry of Louis Dudek (1988).

Sonja's notes record her experience as a young poet, her formative years as a writer, and her appreciation of Louis Dudek. After Louis' passing in 2001, Sonja edited, with Louis's widow Aileen Collins and his old friend Michael Gnarowski, Eternal Conversations: Remembering Louis Dudek (DC Books, Montreal, 2003); for some of us the eternal conversation continues.

 

                                                            Stephen Morrissey

                                                            29 September 2026

(Page one, handwritten by Sonja Skarstedt)    

 

 Sonja A. Skarstedt (her signature)                             Prep. Notes for Dave Bronstetter's

                                                                                    CBC Home Run

                                                                                    (Interview w/ L. Dudek

                                                                                    & SAS   March 1/91 (written in                                                                                                                                              pencil)

 

 

How has Louis Dudek influenced you?

 

As a "renaissance" individual: his words and actions convey the message: don't waste any of your potential, whether your talents are singular or multi-dimensional. Louis of course has branched out into many fields, from poetry (at the center of it all) to essays, teaching, broadcasting, translating, publishing, editing… bound together by enthusiasm.

 

I've always been obsessed by words, (whether) written down and bound in beautiful volumes—whether spoken or invented. I write poetry and edit Zymergy—which I may have been doing if I'd not encountered Louis. However, his stamp on the importance, the vitality of literature in this country—would have been unavoidable. "Hearing" this vitality firsthand then, has made the purpose of putting out everything as caustic as a literary magazine more plausible, more necessary.

 

I first encountered the name of Louis Dudek in Endre Farkas's History of Montreal Poets at John Abbott College. He was included in the Smith-Scott-Klein category (if these can be called a category!), his poetry briefly covered. During my first year at McGill I was combing the Gazette's book section & came across an article on the Vehicule Poets. I was impressed by the writer's wit, the bouncing from one name or element to the next (while remaining in context). "Louis Dudek," I noted, remembering the name from somewhere at McGill, "if he can teach as well as he writes…what a phenomenal way to learn!" I went to the McGill course directory & was delighted to see "Canadian Literature" Louis Dudek, prof/. (that review found now: The Defense of Art)

 

I've always gravitated to art, graphic & comic books as opposed to classics; after attending the second or third class of Dudek's, I noted that I was making elaborate doodles not only in the margins but in the middle of my notes. It certainly wasn't boredom—every word of the lectures was sinking in, flipping around in my imagination then re-emerging in the form of detailed birds, profiles and experimental lines. Next class, I brought with me a pad of vellum art paper and my drafting pens: I might as well conduct a full-scale experiment!

 

(Page two, handwritten by Sonja Skarstedt)

 

—How has Louis' poetry changed (40s vs. 80s e.g.)?

There is less formality, I think, although the same questioning, philosophical voice is there. There might be a grain more pessimism, a mellowered anger.

—Aserbic?

Louis I think pours whatever acid he wishes to convey into his essays & articles rather than the poetry. Even in EPIGRAMS the barbs are gentle, presented with humour & wit rather than Layton-esque vinegar!

—Does Louis differ from Scott, Klein, Smith ... how?

They somehow belong in a category, perhaps generation, of their own. One sees Dudek as either on his own, or within (a word here is illegible and with strikethrough) Laytons the same era as Layton. Layton & Dudek = twins, nonidentical yet pulled from the same musing ribcage.

Scott, Klein & Smith might be viewed as more (overtly) political (religious or mytho-traditional.) Their main preoccupation might be the jabbing and spearing of political monsters. With Dudek & Layton, the "monsters" can be found in ourselves, in sociology, psychology. The terrain is trickier.

Louis' voice is gentler, & his mind is the launching-pad for the universe of perplexities, imperfections.

Elements of this universe: the sea, movement, the sky, emotions,

                                               LOGIC, auroras, creatures (from octopito an

                                                                        "Octopus w/saucer-like suckers"

                                                            to "the weeping beech/ hanging like a great

                                                                                    pavillion") Atlantis

                                                                                                                

rhymes not as frequent, more "everyday" conversation

* ("why don't you," he once suggested), "take out a pen & paper

 when you're in the cafeteria or some such place, & write down what you hear, slivers of chit-chat, whatever ... & see if you can make a poem out of that?"

* the Ogilvy's rose

* Phyllis Webb: rare books & rich enthusiasm over an interview.

"Who knows ..." he would pause, staring into the rows of faces in his classes, who knows which of you sitting in this room will someday become famous, produce something astounding & enrich the human race ... who knows? But we all must try ..."

* CBC reading poetry w/ Jane Lewis. Enthusiasm over poetry: honesty ("try prose!)

Page one of two

Page two of two

Note: Geof Isherwood informs me that today, on which this essay was published, is Sonja`s birthday, she would have been 66 years old; synchronistic or just coincidence?

On Louis Dudek’s "Continuation"

Cross-Section: Poems 1940-1980 (Coach House Press, 1980), Louis Dudek

 

My copy of Louis Dudek’s  Cross-Section: Poems 1940-1980 (1980) used to belong to my friend Sonja Skarstedt, it is one of several books given to me by Sonja’s husband, Geof Isherwood, after Sonja’s passing and it is a book that I treasure because it was Sonja's and it was inscribed to her by another friend, Louis Dudek. Cross-Section is a selection of Dudek’s previously unpublished poems, organized in chronological order from 1940 to 1980. A poem entitled "Fragment of Continuum", the final poem in the book, immediately caught my attention, written in 1980 it is similar to Dudek's Continuation poems in its form and content; the poem is conversational, it is a stream of consciousness that easily fits as a part of Continuation, albeit not quite as good as Continuation, but there must be some connection between this poem and Continuation.

Dudek was uneasy about publishing Continuation, it is idiosyncratic, unlike anything else he wrote, and either readers are willing to extend their idea of what poetry is or they dismiss it as obscure and without artistic value. Continuation was not well received even by Dudek's friends; for instance, Mike Gnarowski was condescending about the poem when I mentioned it to him a year or so before he died. But Louis persevered, as any poet must persevere who writes something considerably out of the main stream of contemporary poetry or their usual work; however, Continuation is also similar to Dudek’s previously published long poems and it is a development on his previous poems. It was years in creative gestation before it was finally published; it also parallels Dudek's growth as a poet.  

Here (revised) is the publishing history of Continuation from my essay, "Reading Louis Dudek’s Continuation: An introduction to a major Canadian poem", published in "Montreal Serai" around December 2013: 

The publishing history of Continuation is interesting; Continuation I ( 1981) and Continuation II (1989) were published as separate volumes by Vehicule Press; Continuation III was never completed but parts of it were published in two separate books, they are:

Continuation III, found in The Caged Tiger (Empyreal Press, Montreal, 1997), has four sections; “Bits and Pieces”, included in The Caged Tiger, was section five of Continuation III.

Dudek’s last book, The Surface of Time (Empyreal Press, Montreal, 2000), concludes with "Sequence from 'Continuation III', which would be section six of "Continuation III".

In Dudek's "White Book", his Collected Poetry (1971), there is an excerpt from "Continuation I" which he subtitled "An infinite Poem in Progress". Dudek’s explanation of "Fragment of Continuum", published the year before Continuation I was published, is also explained but in a footnote to the poem, and it could also describe what he is doing in Continuation; a "continuum" he defines as "Something in which a fundamental common character is discernible amid a series of insensible or indefinite variations". As in Continuation.

There should have been Continuation III, not only excerpts published in two of Dudek’s books.  I am told that Dudek’s literary executor was Mike Gnarowski, but probably due to old age or dislike of Continuation, Professor Gnarowski never published a complete three volume Continuation; there should be three volumes to this work--it should be triadic--the number three suggesting completion, a creative and archetypal manifestation of the creative spirit. Continuation remains incomplete as two volumes; the number two as an archetypal number suggesting the absence of completion, and this reminds us that the poem remains unfinished.

Multiple book length poems are difficult to write and to get published, and difficult to sustain to completion; for instance, some long poems do not cohere, think of Pound's Cantos or Olson's Maxiumus Poems. Dudek's Continuation ends in the poet's acknowledgement that old age preoccupies his thinking and his daily activity and the poem shows the effect of being old; with the exception of William Carlos Williams' Paterson, the long poem is not the domain of old poets as Dudek experienced. Of course, there are exceptions, there always are, but still, few old people have the energy required to maintain a sustained creative effort such as the long poem. That’s just common sense.

Dear Sonja

Sonja Skarstedt

Sonja Skarstedt

1986

Sonja Skarstedt, after a long battle with cancer, died on Friday, July 31, 2009. Sonja was a dear friend to many of us, with a terrific sense of humour and a great spirit to live and create. Geof Isherwood, her husband and life partner--they were always together--informs me there will be a memorial gathering on Sonja's birthday, next October 2. We have lost someone who contributed so much to poetry in Montreal, with her magazine Zymergy, published between 1987-1990, and later with Empyreal Press, she was a tireless and generous worker for many of us whom she published and many more that she supported in other ways. She was also a great support and friend of Louis Dudek in his final years and published his last books for him. What a loss we have all suffered, especially Geof and his family. Sonja was only 48 years old and had such a youthful spirit. I remember Geof and Sonja driving out to Huntingdon to visit back in 1989 or 1990, a time when I especially appreciated their visit, and the years during the 1990s when we worked on books she published for us. Two years ago I published her chapbook, Abundances, online with Coracle Press. She was a terrifically creative person, a poet, a visual artist, a playwright, and most recently she had branched out to making films. You can find out more about Sonja at www.skarwood.com.